Discussion:
Presidential election
m***@juno.com
2004-10-02 09:13:04 UTC
Permalink
I saw that there was several posts on the debates and the election when I
downloaded my e-mail. I decided not to read them yet until I posted what
I have been seeing this past few years concerning the Presidency, the
state of the 'church', Israel, and the direction of world affairs at this
time.

I have heard others say (and seen e-mails) that Bush is 'Gods' man of
this time. And that they discerned this of the spirit.
I have also seen the same as above concerning Kerry. How do we as a
people set apart unto YHWH, who indwells us by His Holy Spirit, explain
this?

I consider this election a cross roads for all the nations, as well as
for the 'church'. BOTH directions we can take include shaking of all the
nations. One in one direction, the other in another. Discernment of His
will for this is essential I believe. I TREMBLE when I read that He will
turn one over to himself because of that ones heart and wonder if perhaps
our carnal understanding and desires do not most often keep us from
seeing just what IS His true will for the times and seasons we are in.

I consider Bush the man of the hour. Others consider Kerry. (Yes, I use
their names, we are to be grownups and be able to be completely honest
about all this as One, without strife) But consider this. When I go up to
vote, what am I to do if I discern that the Spirit says vote for Kerry?
And vice verses for those who consider Kerry the man of the hour. Even if
I have been campaigning for Bush? IF I have TRUE discernment there is no
'choice' in my opinion, none but to do as I discern.

Even in this I have a sense of foreboding and trembling. Because the
Spirit will direct according to the will of the Father and just HOW the
shaking will advance. On the one hand we have one candidate who would
turn over the sovereignty of the nation to an Global Counsel so to speak.
On the other hand we have another who is against doing this at all.

To turn our sovereignty over would mean eventual an Islamic overflow in
all the nation I believe, as well as bring us in alignment with the One
World (eventual) government (and religion). In turn which will eventually
turn its back on Israel completely, which history shows is the first step
before persecution comes to the rest of the House of Israel (which
includes the church).

To stand as one nation will eventually bring us to war (quicker at least)
such as this nation has never seen. With possibly only one nation lining
up with us, Israel.

BOTH decisions will bring war and shaking. But just how this comes about
depends on the choices we make today. And perhaps in this we are given
the choice ourselves. That We as His people are to discern the times and
we, as His people are to KNOW His will as we claim to so much. I mean,
everyone says they KNOW Him don't they?

The whole deal has been a prophetic statement throughout the years
concerning the state of the His people and His direction for them. What
we see in the natural does indeed reflect what is going on in the
heavenlies. I have not heard much spoken on this. Which surprises me, or
maybe I just missed it?

In the days ahead He will separate just Who is His and who is not. He
will deal with the difference between the Holy and the profane, the sheep
vs. the goats, the wheat and the tares.

I believe we all have been seeing this shaking for a number of years.
Many of us have called it this or that, but we have all felt something.
The problem is just as this election, some say the Lord says this, others
that. THIS should shake us NOW. YHWH is not a man that He would lie. But
He has said He would send the prophets to speak to us according to OUR
hearts! Showing that those He speaks as such to are not truly in
agreement with His will. So they are turned over to themselves and their
own decisions...in the least not receiving the fullness of His will for
us as His chosen. At worst, some becoming reprobate and counted among the
wicked. I tremble at this!

I know this is long, For that I apologize. But I cannot possible even
write all I have been seeing and perhaps am not to. But to not speak
would be a sin I believe.

We as His people HAVE TO come into the oneness Y'shua spoke of, prayed to
be, and said would be. I know this oneness doesn't mean we are not
individuals within the oneness, but that we discern in the spirit truly
according to His will. Step in step, hand in hand as one, in the natural
as well as the spirit. Uncompromising in the faith, faces set like flint
towards the goal, and this for and to His glory, His namesake alone.

I pray I wrote this clearly. If any have any questions or even
corrections, fill free to reply.

Blessings and shalom in Y'shua our Messiah.
Shabbat shalom
laz




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Jonathan E. Brickman
2004-10-02 19:32:54 UTC
Permalink
Please do not post unsolicited lectures into this group.
Post by m***@juno.com
I saw that there was several posts on the debates and the election when I
downloaded my e-mail. I decided not to read them yet until I posted what
I have been seeing this past few years concerning the Presidency, the
state of the 'church', Israel, and the direction of world affairs at this
time.
I have heard others say (and seen e-mails) that Bush is 'Gods' man of
this time. And that they discerned this of the spirit.
I have also seen the same as above concerning Kerry. How do we as a
people set apart unto YHWH, who indwells us by His Holy Spirit, explain
this?
I consider this election a cross roads for all the nations, as well as
for the 'church'. BOTH directions we can take include shaking of all the
nations. One in one direction, the other in another. Discernment of His
will for this is essential I believe. I TREMBLE when I read that He will
turn one over to himself because of that ones heart and wonder if perhaps
our carnal understanding and desires do not most often keep us from
seeing just what IS His true will for the times and seasons we are in.
I consider Bush the man of the hour. Others consider Kerry. (Yes, I use
their names, we are to be grownups and be able to be completely honest
about all this as One, without strife) But consider this. When I go up to
vote, what am I to do if I discern that the Spirit says vote for Kerry?
And vice verses for those who consider Kerry the man of the hour. Even if
I have been campaigning for Bush? IF I have TRUE discernment there is no
'choice' in my opinion, none but to do as I discern.
Even in this I have a sense of foreboding and trembling. Because the
Spirit will direct according to the will of the Father and just HOW the
shaking will advance. On the one hand we have one candidate who would
turn over the sovereignty of the nation to an Global Counsel so to speak.
On the other hand we have another who is against doing this at all.
To turn our sovereignty over would mean eventual an Islamic overflow in
all the nation I believe, as well as bring us in alignment with the One
World (eventual) government (and religion). In turn which will eventually
turn its back on Israel completely, which history shows is the first step
before persecution comes to the rest of the House of Israel (which
includes the church).
To stand as one nation will eventually bring us to war (quicker at least)
such as this nation has never seen. With possibly only one nation lining
up with us, Israel.
BOTH decisions will bring war and shaking. But just how this comes about
depends on the choices we make today. And perhaps in this we are given
the choice ourselves. That We as His people are to discern the times and
we, as His people are to KNOW His will as we claim to so much. I mean,
everyone says they KNOW Him don't they?
The whole deal has been a prophetic statement throughout the years
concerning the state of the His people and His direction for them. What
we see in the natural does indeed reflect what is going on in the
heavenlies. I have not heard much spoken on this. Which surprises me, or
maybe I just missed it?
In the days ahead He will separate just Who is His and who is not. He
will deal with the difference between the Holy and the profane, the sheep
vs. the goats, the wheat and the tares.
I believe we all have been seeing this shaking for a number of years.
Many of us have called it this or that, but we have all felt something.
The problem is just as this election, some say the Lord says this, others
that. THIS should shake us NOW. YHWH is not a man that He would lie. But
He has said He would send the prophets to speak to us according to OUR
hearts! Showing that those He speaks as such to are not truly in
agreement with His will. So they are turned over to themselves and their
own decisions...in the least not receiving the fullness of His will for
us as His chosen. At worst, some becoming reprobate and counted among the
wicked. I tremble at this!
I know this is long, For that I apologize. But I cannot possible even
write all I have been seeing and perhaps am not to. But to not speak
would be a sin I believe.
We as His people HAVE TO come into the oneness Y'shua spoke of, prayed to
be, and said would be. I know this oneness doesn't mean we are not
individuals within the oneness, but that we discern in the spirit truly
according to His will. Step in step, hand in hand as one, in the natural
as well as the spirit. Uncompromising in the faith, faces set like flint
towards the goal, and this for and to His glory, His namesake alone.
I pray I wrote this clearly. If any have any questions or even
corrections, fill free to reply.
Blessings and shalom in Y'shua our Messiah.
Shabbat shalom
laz
Yahoo! Groups Links
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Questioners/
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--
Jonathan E. Brickman
http://joshuacorps.org

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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m***@juno.com
2004-10-02 16:03:06 UTC
Permalink
Jon, what do you mean by unsolicitated? I wrote this, it just so happens
I sent it to others as well.

What is your problem with this post? I didnt think we had to ask
permission about what to post?

laz


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Jonathan E. Brickman
2004-10-02 21:53:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@juno.com
Jon, what do you mean by unsolicitated? I wrote this, it just so happens
I sent it to others as well.
What is your problem with this post?
It is an unsolicited lecture. But apparently I misremembered the two rules of the list! Here they are again:

...respect is required for the two rules of the list, (a) a ban on personal attacks against members and on vocabulary commonly termed obscene and profane, and (b) a strict limit of one (1) unsolicited lecture or monologue of any sort per member (including moderator) per month. Long explanations are welcome, even encouraged, as responses to explicit questions; but only one lecture or monologue is permitted per member per month when not being delivered as responses to explicit questions.
Post by m***@juno.com
I didnt think we had to ask
permission about what to post?
You definitely do not. Obviously the error was mine.
--
Jonathan E. Brickman
http://joshuacorps.org

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Jonathan E. Brickman
2004-10-02 22:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@juno.com
Even in this I have a sense of foreboding and trembling. Because the
Spirit will direct according to the will of the Father and just HOW the
shaking will advance. On the one hand we have one candidate who would
turn over the sovereignty of the nation to an Global Counsel so to speak.
On the other hand we have another who is against doing this at all.
I would like to suggest that both candidates are eager to turn over sovereignty of the U.S.A. I would like to suggest that the difference is the challenger would do it openly, whereas the incumbent is doing it covertly and lying about it to those who would rather not see it happen.
Post by m***@juno.com
To turn our sovereignty over would mean eventual an Islamic overflow in
all the nation I believe, as well as bring us in alignment with the One
World (eventual) government (and religion). In turn which will eventually
turn its back on Israel completely, which history shows is the first step
before persecution comes to the rest of the House of Israel (which
includes the church).
I would like to suggest that the Islamic overflow will occur, or will be prevented by God, no matter which candidate wins.
Post by m***@juno.com
I believe we all have been seeing this shaking for a number of years.
Many of us have called it this or that, but we have all felt something.
The problem is just as this election, some say the Lord says this, others
that. THIS should shake us NOW.
Indeed. But the Lord says that nothing should shake us at all, save Himself. Do you remember?
Post by m***@juno.com
I know this is long, For that I apologize. But I cannot possible even
write all I have been seeing and perhaps am not to. But to not speak
would be a sin I believe.
Not to speak about what? About the fact that the Body of Christ should be worrying about cares of this world? I suggest that according to the Lord, the Body of Christ should not be worrying about cares of this world.
Post by m***@juno.com
We as His people HAVE TO come into the oneness Y'shua spoke of, prayed to
be, and said would be. I know this oneness doesn't mean we are not
individuals within the oneness, but that we discern in the spirit truly
according to His will. Step in step, hand in hand as one, in the natural
as well as the spirit. Uncompromising in the faith, faces set like flint
towards the goal, and this for and to His glory, His namesake alone.
I suggest that this oneness you speak of will only occur at the last day, when the Lord separates the wheat from the chaff.
--
Jonathan E. Brickman
http://joshuacorps.org

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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m***@juno.com
2004-10-03 19:15:20 UTC
Permalink
Below:

On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 17:00:31 -0500 "Jonathan E. Brickman"
Post by m***@juno.com
Post by m***@juno.com
Even in this I have a sense of foreboding and trembling. Because
the
Post by m***@juno.com
Spirit will direct according to the will of the Father and just
HOW the
Post by m***@juno.com
shaking will advance. On the one hand we have one candidate who
would
Post by m***@juno.com
turn over the sovereignty of the nation to an Global Counsel so to
speak.
Post by m***@juno.com
On the other hand we have another who is against doing this at
all.
I would like to suggest that both candidates are eager to turn over
sovereignty of the U.S.A. I would like to suggest that the
difference is the challenger would do it openly, whereas the
incumbent is doing it covertly and lying about it to those who would
rather not see it happen.
Well, I know the consperatists claim these things. I learned long ago
that the consperacy theories missed some very important truth's. They
have been around since before the time thay were capable of forming the
links sais of them to perform global power. It has only been the last
several years that this has been posible at all.
So I havve learned to take all theories with a grain of salt and
smile..... For the truth of the matter is MUCH more sinister and
terrifying. The real consperacy is in the heavenlies. It only works out
in the natural as well at it is able to pursuade man to follow.
The catch and enemy of the power in the heavenlies in this is Y'shua and
His redemptive work. So ANY who will choose to believe in Him and follow
Him will be saved and freed from the deception of this heavenly power.
Either way, it has already been prophesied what will come to be. To try
and get beyond this or surpass this is to 'kick against the pricks'. Not
to say we have no battle of our own in Him, but that the prophesies will
come to pass no matter what.
There WILL be one world government and one world religion. The test and
trial is who will be given over to it vs. who will stand, in faith,
against it.
Post by m***@juno.com
Post by m***@juno.com
To turn our sovereignty over would mean eventual an Islamic
overflow in
Post by m***@juno.com
all the nation I believe, as well as bring us in alignment with
the One
Post by m***@juno.com
World (eventual) government (and religion). In turn which will
eventually
Post by m***@juno.com
turn its back on Israel completely, which history shows is the
first step
Post by m***@juno.com
before persecution comes to the rest of the House of Israel
(which
Post by m***@juno.com
includes the church).
I would like to suggest that the Islamic overflow will occur, or
will be prevented by God, no matter which candidate wins.
True. Only HOW this comes about is what I am addressing.
Post by m***@juno.com
Post by m***@juno.com
I believe we all have been seeing this shaking for a number of
years.
Post by m***@juno.com
Many of us have called it this or that, but we have all felt
something.
Post by m***@juno.com
The problem is just as this election, some say the Lord says this,
others
Post by m***@juno.com
that. THIS should shake us NOW.
Indeed. But the Lord says that nothing should shake us at all, save
Himself. Do you remember?
Do you remember He said, 'Yet once again, I will shake ALL THINGS, in the
heavenlies and in the earth'? This IS part of that shaking. What did you
think it would look like in the beginning?
Post by m***@juno.com
Post by m***@juno.com
I know this is long, For that I apologize. But I cannot possible
even
Post by m***@juno.com
write all I have been seeing and perhaps am not to. But to not
speak
Post by m***@juno.com
would be a sin I believe.
Not to speak about what? About the fact that the Body of Christ
should be worrying about cares of this world? I suggest that
according to the Lord, the Body of Christ should not be worrying
about cares of this world.
Did I say a thing about worry? Do you really think I am speaking about
the cares of this world? Or is it that maybe in truth the cares of this
world have need of being 'shaken' from us perhaps? What do you think?
Post by m***@juno.com
Post by m***@juno.com
We as His people HAVE TO come into the oneness Y'shua spoke of,
prayed to
Post by m***@juno.com
be, and said would be. I know this oneness doesn't mean we are
not
Post by m***@juno.com
individuals within the oneness, but that we discern in the spirit
truly
Post by m***@juno.com
according to His will. Step in step, hand in hand as one, in the
natural
Post by m***@juno.com
as well as the spirit. Uncompromising in the faith, faces set like
flint
Post by m***@juno.com
towards the goal, and this for and to His glory, His namesake
alone.
I suggest that this oneness you speak of will only occur at the last
day, when the Lord separates the wheat from the chaff.
I suggest you deny the power of the Spirit and do not understand what the
seperating will look like. Read John 17 again. Y'shua was not speaking of
future, unatainable things as much as here and now things.
Something much of the first century body have which we have lost.
Post by m***@juno.com
--
Jonathan E. Brickman
shalom
laz


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m***@juno.com
2004-10-03 19:16:27 UTC
Permalink
No, it is a proclamation. I lecture no one.

laz


On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 16:53:27 -0500 "Jonathan E. Brickman"
Post by m***@juno.com
Post by m***@juno.com
Jon, what do you mean by unsolicitated? I wrote this, it just so
happens
Post by m***@juno.com
I sent it to others as well.
What is your problem with this post?
It is an unsolicited lecture. But apparently I misremembered the
...respect is required for the two rules of the list, (a) a ban on
personal attacks against members and on vocabulary commonly termed
obscene and profane, and (b) a strict limit of one (1) unsolicited
lecture or monologue of any sort per member (including moderator)
per month. Long explanations are welcome, even encouraged, as
responses to explicit questions; but only one lecture or monologue
is permitted per member per month when not being delivered as
responses to explicit questions.
Post by m***@juno.com
I didnt think we had to ask
permission about what to post?
You definitely do not. Obviously the error was mine.
--
Jonathan E. Brickman
http://joshuacorps.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Jonathan E. Brickman
2004-10-05 01:56:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@juno.com
Post by Jonathan E. Brickman
Post by m***@juno.com
What is your problem with this post?
It is an unsolicited lecture.
No, it is a proclamation. I lecture no one.
Regardless of what you call it, for the purposes of this list it will be counted as a lecture, and you are limited to one of them per month.
--
Jonathan E. Brickman
http://joshuacorps.org

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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